read time: 10 min
Let’s talk DMC’s.
What’s a DMC, you ask?
Deep Meaningful Conversation.
A month or so ago, I posted a Reel where I shared how it’s common among relationships (especially ones where you’ve been together for some time) to not have consistent deep meaningful conversations.
It’s also common for those with relationship anxiety to add a deep layer of meaning (you see what I did there?) onto not having enough of these DMC’s.
For those who missed the Reel, you can find it here.
However, to quickly catch you up to speed, I said that:
1 - We don’t always need to be having deep meaningful conversations, and this expectation is what’s causing you to feel disappointed, not the fact that there aren’t enough of the conversations in the first place
2 - It takes energy to have deep meaningful conversations (on both people’s end, including you!) - it takes curiosity, listening, initiation, presence, asking open ended questions, vulnerability to share, and more. They don’t just “happen” if you’re in “the right relationship” - and if they happened more in the beginning of your relationship, it’s likely because you were being more curious, listening more, asking more questions, etc. etc. etc.
3 - I’ve really been enjoying some of the simple mundane moments lately with Nate without needing that pressure of things to be deep and meaningful, and ironically when I’ve released this attachment to things being deep and meaningful, there are usually moments where we end up having an unexpected DMC anyways. However, I don’t release the expectation or attachment in order to “get something” - I’m doing it for my own peace of mind.
After I made that post, I received a ton of comments and questions asking me to elaborate on this topic. Some of the comments or questions I received were:
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“How to learn to see value in silence/mundane moments and being okay with silence in general?”
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“What are ways we can begin lowering our expectations”
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“I also found myself noticing I want to get a certain feeling out of a deep conversation, and when I don’t get that feeling I’m left disappointed”
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“Comparing myself to other couples believing they have deep conversations 24/7” (no one does anything 24/7
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“Judging your partner’s response to what you say, seeing if it’s interesting enough or smart enough or entertaining/creative enough”
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“I’d love to read some suggestions on topics for us to talk about with our partner/friends when we don’t know what to talk about”
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“Meaningful conversations make me feel more secure. I’m realizing I have a very frequent need to have these conversations and use them to feel secure. Even though logically I may know my partner’s actions are also indications of us being secure I tend to lean towards affirmative words to address my fear of abandonment. I would love a blog post on how to navigate this feeling”
Such powerful questions, and a great reminder that you’re never alone in an experience.
Look how many different questions and comments around this topic came up!
Phew, now that we’ve established this is a normal concern and you’re not alone—let’s talk through these questions and comments.
“What are ways we can begin lowering our expectations?”
If you expect something to go one way, and it doesn’t go that way and your perception is that things turned out “less” than expected—this is an automatic recipe for disappointment.
I think we all know this deep down, and have experienced it many times, and yet we still stay attached to expectations.
Trust me, I still do it too, I am human.
However, one thing Nate and I have been working on a lot (and learning about) is releasing the tight grip on the expectation.
It’s totally fine to have expectations, goals, or visions.
It’s not very helpful to actually think that because you have the expectation, goal, or vision, things will turn out exactly so.
It’s a subtle but important difference, and one that is going to be important in this DMC discussion.
To give an example of this: it’s one thing to enjoy deep meaningful conversations and want them to happen in your relationship, it’s another to constantly monitor the amount of them happening, expect them to happen at your convenience, and then judge your partner if they’re not bringing enough DMC to the relationship.
Tossing out all expectations for a relationship or life isn’t the goal here, but tossing out the attachment to those things happening perfectly is the goal.
In his book Four Thousand Weeks, Oliver Burkeman shares that “Some Zen Buddhists hold that the entirety of human suffering can be boiled down to this effort to resist paying full attention to the way things are going, because we wish they were going differently (’this shouldn’t be happening!’), or because we wish we felt more in control of the process.”
I resonate so much with the notion of suffering coming from wishing things were going differently (and the control part, too…).
“This shouldn’t be happening” is one of the least productive thoughts to have.
Why? Because whatever is happening is in fact happening.
You can of course change whatever is happening, but in order to change it, you have to first accept it’s there in the first place.
A lot of anxiety (and relationship anxiety specifically) would be relieved if we shifted “this shouldn’t be happening” into “this is happening, now what would I like to do about it?”
“How to learn to see value in silence/mundane moments and being okay with silence in general?”
Question for you:
Where did your expectation come from that life should not have silence or mundane moments?
And when you pause, slow down, and think from a clear-headed place about this—does it actually feel true or realistic?
I know I know, relationship anxiety tries to convince you that the “right” relationship will be fun, exciting, spontaneous, deep, meaningful, loving, magical, passionate, and perfect 24/7.
But this isn’t a RomCom, this is real life.
Humans get tired, run out of “deep” things to talk about, want to spend time alone, talk about chores and groceries and work, and more...
Instead of “how to learn to see value in silence/mundane moments?” I’d almost ask you “why is it so hard to allow myself to lean into moments of silence/mundane-ness?”
What are you trying to desperately distract yourself from that silence or mundane-ness feels so scary?
(No, not a deep dark truth that you need to leave your relationship* (*assumes no abuse)).
I know when I slow down and get silent, that’s when my mind likes to throw allll of the intrusive thoughts my way.
“Shouldn’t you be working harder?”
“Shouldn’t you be doing something more fun or exciting?”
“Shouldn’t you and Nate be talking more?”
This is normal. The mind/ego want us to be productive and perfect so none of our fears of unworthiness, settling, abandonment, etc. get rustled up.
How do I know this? Well—do any of the below sound familiar?:
“If I have enough deep meaningful conversations, my relationship is worthy and will last”
“If I have enough deep meaningful conversations, then I’m less likely to be settling”
“If I have enough deep meaningful conversations, that will make us closer and we won’t breakup”
Check...check...andddd check?
The way to learn to be more okay with silence and mundane moments is to practice. And then keep practicing. And then practice some more.
There is no magic pill that I can give you.
You’ll need to lean into the uncomfy-ness and trust that it doesn’t mean you or your relationship are bad.
Another quote from Oliver Burkeman that I found relevant to share here is this:
“The way to find peaceful absorption in a difficult project, or a boring Sunday afternoon, isn’t to chase feelings of peace or absorption, but to acknowledge the inevitability of discomfort, and to turn more of your attention to the reality of your situation than to railing against it.”
Basically—stop trying to escape discomfort and find peace, ease, or meaning in things all the time, 24/7 365.
It’s not realistic—we’re humans, not robots.
“I also found myself noticing I want to get a certain feeling out of a deep conversation, and when I don’t get that feeling I’m left disappointed”
This was the comment I was most excited to address, I must admit.
Without intending to, this comment is basically saying:
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If I don’t get what I want from someone, then I’m not okay
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If my partner isn’t good enough at making ME feel a certain way, they’re not helping me, they’re not “right” for me, they’re the problem
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I don’t have any control over my feelings (or what I do after I experience feelings), I’m helpless to outside circumstances
False, false, and false.
While of course we all have needs as humans, when we base being okay on someone else, we’re leaving a lot up in the air.
Our partners are not need-meeting machines.
We are not helpless to external circumstances, and we do have the power to feel something, then do something about it.
If we go into a conversation, or a relationship with the mindset of “what can I GET out of this?”—we are setting ourselves up for failure.
I’ve been there, and get stuck there often still.
And then I lovingly remind myself relationships and love are not about “what can I get?” but “what can I give without expectation of receiving?”
Of course there is nuance to this. Of course in a loving relationship, we both give and receive.
However, a sure-fire way to continue feeling anxious is to leave your fulfillment in the hands of someone else instead of taking responsibility for it yourself.
“Comparing myself to other couples believing they have deep conversations 24/7”
I will myth-bust this for you right now: this isn’t the case.
Life isn’t black or white.
No one does anything 24/7.
Things ebb and flow.
There will be moments of deep meaningful conversation, and moments of boredom.
There will be mundane seasons, and seasons of excitement.
There will be neutral events, and positive and negative ones.
Life is in the grey area, not the black or white.
How can you hold space for your relationship (and all relationships) to live somewhere on a sliding scale, not in a place of absolutes?
“Judging your partner’s response to what you say, seeing if it’s interesting enough or smart enough or entertaining/creative enough”
This is a complex piece of the puzzle to address.
Essentially, the statement is unintentionally saying “if my partner is smart enough, entertaining enough, or creative enough, then I will be happier.”
And it’s a lie.
It’s also a projection, meaning we want someone to be more of something that we don’t want to have to fully take ownership of within.
Do you sometimes not feel smart enough, and want a smart partner? Do you worry that if you are not with a smart partner, it means you’re not smart enough to pick the “best option?”
Do you sometimes feel like confused at know how to bring more entertainment or creativity into your life, and thus wish that the person you were with could help bring more of it?
What’s realllly going on here?
Because someone who is truly feeling happy with themselves and their circumstances is likely not bothered by other people not being enough of something.
It’s some food for thought, that I say with so much love (and have had to learn the hard way many many times).
I also discuss it more in this blog post, called “accepting our partner’s flaws.”
“I’d love to read some suggestions on topics for us to talk about with our partner/friends when we don’t know what to talk about”
While I love this question, and it has the best of intentions, I don’t think that me giving topics to discuss with partners or friends when you don’t know what to talk about is necessarily the solution here (especially after everything I’ve shared so far).
Instead, I think learning to be more okay and comfortable with the inevitable times where you don’t need to “know what to say.”
I don’t think we need to always try to “fill the silence” in order to have a loving, meaningful, fulfilling relationship.
However, there are a couple of resources I can recommend for this:
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Best Self Intimacy cards (or any of the other in this collection).
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Eight Dates book with questions and date ideas
Lastly: “Meaningful conversations make me feel more secure. I’m realizing I have a very frequent need to have these conversations and use them to feel secure. Even though logically I may know my partner’s actions are also indications of us being secure I tend to lean towards affirmative words to address my fear of abandonment. I would love a blog for how to navigate this feeling”
First, I want to validate that meaningful conversations absolutely make me feel secure in my relationship as well.
It’s not wrong or bad to crave this as part of your relationship.
Where I get tripped up is the piece about “having a very frequent need to have these conversations and use them to feel secure.”
What this says is that you’re looking for something outside of you to make you feel something.
And again, there is nuance to this, that is not always wrong or bad, but it’s not always reliable, either.
Even if you are in the most loving, caring, supportive relationship, your partner may not always be available emotionally or physically to have a meaningful conversation when you need it most, or when you’re feeling insecure.
We have to have tools to be able to find inner security and safety in addition to finding that safety from our relationships. It’s not one or the other, it’s both.
When your fear of abandonment arises and that makes you feel less safe in the relationship, that will inevitably feel scary, AND, you have options.
Take a peek at these blog posts which address how to soothe and regulate when insecurity or fear arises:
Please know if you've ever felt like you don't have enough deep, meaningful, conversations in your relationship—you are not alone!
However, we need to ask ourselves how often we're expecting this to occur and see if we're helping contribute to these deep, meaningful conversations we crave.
It's not our partner's responsibility to initiate or partake in these 24/7 with us.
Let's hold space for the moments of sitting in silence and enjoying one another's presence AND have the courage to initiate more deep, meaningful conversations if we crave them (either with our partner, with family, friends, or within a community).
